Apr 4: Dossier Centre: "I consider the president a war criminal" Interview with Gleb Karakulov
As published by the Dossier Centre on April 4, 2023
Before reading…
Grab a coffee…this is a long interview, and it’s well-worth your time. The Dossier Centre is a trusted outlet. Rozhdestvensky’s questions span Karakulov’s escape, his decision to leave, his work in the FSO, Putin’s routines, and his message to his fellow FSO officers and Russians. It’s an incredible read.
"I consider the president a war criminal"
Interview with Gleb Karakulov by Ilya Rozhdestvensky, Dossier Centre, April 4, 2023
The Dossier Center spent more than 10 hours with the officer and found out why he decided to leave the FSO and leave Russia. Karakulov is the highest-ranking intelligence officer since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, who has fled the country and denounced the war. In Russia, Karakulov was put on the wanted list, a criminal case was opened against him for desertion (Part 3 of Article 338 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation). The interview was recorded at the end of 2022. "Dossier" publishes the material, making sure that Karakulov and his family are safe.
The escape
How did you decide that it was time to quit this job?
There were a lot of calls that made it clear to me that I was not ready to make deals with my conscience while in the service. My conscience said: "Listen, well, this is not it." I was due to retire in less than two years. And I planned that I would finish my service, close the mortgage and that's it - I would not renew the contract. But in February of this year, a criminal war began, and I could not make a deal with my conscience. I simply could not be in the service of this president. I consider this man a war criminal. Although I did not participate specifically in hostilities, I do not consider it possible for me to fulfill his criminal orders or simply be in his service.
You are not on the territory of Russia. How did you leave Russia? How did you quit the FSO?
Retired in absentia. In fact, it all started on February 24th. For some reason, I, like many other citizens of our country, hoped that no escalation would occur, let alone open aggression. On the 24th, for probably half an hour, I just sat in a stupor right from the morning. Then, apparently, because of all the experiences, my health [began to have problems], appendicitis is not appendicitis ... And for three months I was on sick leave. I calmed down somewhat, began to [persuade myself] that this did not concern me. But, of course, I already realized that I need to somehow quietly leave - faster than retiring.
Unfortunately, my passport ended, and I needed to resolve the issue of obtaining a regular civil passport. Three months have passed, plus there were holidays. As a result, my first business trip after such a long period began on August 1 - and immediately for 19 days. And I found myself right in the thick of the discussion, you know, even savoring everything that happens in the war. I don't even know how to describe how disgusting and disgusting it was.
That is, your colleagues in the FSO discussed how everything is going on at the front?
Just savoring it. I don't know, [I experienced] some kind of terrible disgust. I planned to just quit, come up with some reason. It is difficult to terminate the contract, but it is possible.
Next - September 21, mobilization. I understand that even if I quit, I become a reserve officer. And a direct flight immediately after leaving for the front. I categorically could not agree to participate in this criminal war. I'm coming [from a business trip], I think, on September 22. And a few days later I find out that I was signed up for the next business trip. This time it was Astana, Kazakhstan.
I had the idea that this is a good option that should not be missed: either continue to suffer and serve, or quit - and then a direct road to the front, or leave. And with the help of journalists, to speak out and say that this is criminal: you can’t calmly perceive and even more so support the war like this.
What happened in Astana? How did you plan this escape?
We flew there for preparatory activities on October 6th. My wife stayed in Moscow for a few more days, she flew to Astana on October 8 with her daughter. We did not have time to do anything before departure: neither things nor the car to sell. The car was issued to the wife's brother by a donation agreement. Things that might be useful or could be sold were also sent to him. They tried to fit their whole life into three suitcases.
That is, this is your business trip, you fly there together with your colleagues in the FSO. A few days later, your spouse joins you and this does not raise any questions from your colleagues? I assume that usually spouses do not go for FSO officers.
She is not next to me, she did not stay in the same hotel. She and I only crossed paths once before we drove to the airport together. She came to me for my suitcase, because I roughly imagine that if I go out in the middle of the day with a suitcase at lunchtime, then this can attract attention. Therefore, we, leaving separately, crossed paths, she went into my room. And then you have to go to the hotel, and there is the security service. She needed to explain how to get up to the floor, explain how to get there, so that it would be quick and not cause questions. It was also necessary to guess the moment when there was no one in my room.
I'm telling you, it seems like everything took her literally 2-3 minutes. But she was very worried. And at that moment I was with the child a little further from the hotel, so as not to attrack attention.
Your business trip continues, and finally you decide it's time to run. How does this happen?
There was no clear feeling that it would be such and such a day at such and such an hour. Everything was very dynamic, and I kept thinking: “Well, well, today it won’t work, today it won’t work again.” And for about 2-3 days all this was postponed, and then many factors coincided. The most important - October 14 was the last day of the business trip. On the morning of October 15, our group of FSO officers would fly back to Moscow. It was impossible to delay.
Another factor: we have service passports, but we don't get them very often. I do not know what this is connected with, maybe now they will not be given at all after my precedent.
In Astana, we were given foreign passports because while in the service we had to [confirm our identities]. I remember my shock when, on the morning of the 14th, the senior assistant from the communication group told me to hand over my passport. That is, before that I had a passport for a week. There is still an event going on, and they are already saying to hand it over. I sit with my headphones, and watch something on YouTube. Someone talks, but I didn’t hear the guy until the last moment. Even if they told me: “Well, where is your passport?”, I would answer that it was probably in the hotel. Just different hotels - they lived in one, worked in the other. One could say that the passport is in another hotel,
I also agreed in advance that after work I would go buy souvenirs. That is, I myself increased the time when they would not look for me.
How did you leave?
We went with my wife and child to the airport at about three o'clock. The guys who were not on duty soon wanted to go shopping. They write to me and ask where I am. I think: damn it, should I answer or not? I had to answer. And I texted that I wanted to [go shopping], but after dinner my stomach hurt, go without me. Maybe by five o'clock [I can]. Somehow I managed to divert their attention.
You are on your way to the airport.
Yes. There the center was blocked. There were also worries about traffic jams. But there seemed to be no congestion towards the airport. Then the usual check-in for a flight to Istanbul, baggage check-in. I thought that there might be some questions at the airport about my international passport - it is somewhat different from the usual civil one: it is of a different color. No, no one had any questions. Then there were only internal experiences.
The flight was delayed by about an hour. I think we left at 5:30 pm. And they are already looking for me there. That is, at 17 o'clock, I texted that I would not go for souvenirs. I'm going to work, now I'll just finish my business. Some time at 17.15, that is, 10-15 minutes before departure, I just turned off the phone.
Let's clarify. The current employee of the FSO with his wife leaves the place of work. He's gone for several hours. At this point, he passes border control. And no one got alarmed, no one ran to look for you with machine guns and dogs, no one tried to land the plane in which you took off? Amazing peace of mind among your colleagues.
I had to divert their attention a little. They must have been very angry.
You fly for a few more hours, your plane lands, you turn on your phone. And you are getting messages about what a scoundrel and traitor you are?
There was no flurry of messages. There were about five messages, probably. There were many messages at the moment when I turned off the phone. And there were messages like: “Where is he? Maybe he left the room? Maybe he's already here? Let's go to the room. No one is there." I do not consider such messages. But it is precisely the format “oh you scoundrel” - there are two or three such messages. And another officer of the operational department came out to me.
What does it mean "an officer of the operational department came out"?
He thought that I would answer him, well, he went out, wrote that, like ...
"Hi, how are you?"
"This is so-and-so, getting in touch urgently." OK.
How quickly do you think your colleagues realized what happened?
“I can only guess. Probably, if I flew out at 17:30, by 18 o'clock a clear they realised what had happened. But this is only awareness, and then it was necessary to trace this entire chain [of actions during the escape]. An employee of the operational department wrote to me at about 20:00 Astana time.
That is, if boarding the plane was delayed for another half an hour or an hour, then you would probably have already been caught at the airport.
I didn't want to think about it at the time. My wife was very worried. I remember this incident, which happened in Belarus when the plane landed . But still, I reassured myself that I was an ordinary engineer, why land a plane for me.
But you are not an ordinary engineer, you are an employee of the FSO. Obviously, from the point of view of Russian law, you are committing a criminal offense.
Yes that's right.
How can you be calm in such a situation?
I just understood that if I continued to serve, then for me it would be an even greater crime. Not within the framework of Russian law, but something humanly criminal.
When did you tell your wife that you decided to leave the service?
Yes, probably, on February 24. I said that I was definitely finishing in the FSO.
She took it seriously that you were really ready to leave?
I don’t think so. I am not ready to answer for her, but, most likely, she had some kind of block. How is it, we just made repairs, a kitchen, a car and all that, relatives all live in Russia, we need to somehow give all this up. I think she was not ready to accept it.
But after maybe a month, she did. She also watches the news. She realized that nothing good could come of it. And at least just for the unborn child, she must do something. I asked her if she was ready [to run away]. I just wouldn't do it alone, obviously. I asked her periodically, not directly, so as not to push her. Periodically I asked, and she said: "Listen, do not rush, I'm very worried." In August, when I was on a business trip, she could calmly reflect. And apparently she understood. Consciously said: "That's it, I'm ready, let's hurry up."
How did the child react to the departure?
She has no idea about this yet. For her, we went on vacation, to the sea. Before leaving, her kindergarten decided to prepare children aged 3-4 for such madness when rockets and bombs fall on cities and people die. I think you have also seen photos taken in kindergartens where children march. They stand and yawn. My child will not march. I reassured my daughter as best I could, so I hope she no longer thinks about this. And now for her we are at sea, we walk and walk.
How did the rest of your family react to this? Has anyone else been aware of what you are planning?
My relatives didn't know. I was already in Istanbul, and they only found out about it on November 8 or 9, when they came to search them. I did not understand whether they were employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, or the Investigative Committee, or our operatives. Perhaps only at that moment they knew what was happening. They were in another city.
Quite a lot of time has passed since February. And during this time, you obviously had the opportunity to talk to your parents and tell them that you made such a decision. But you didn't. Why?
Because they watch TV, no matter how strange it may sound. When my mother came to me in the summer, the TV was on in the evening. There was video footage, a live war that felt so real: on the couch you feel like you are in a trench. A discussion begins on TV, a live broadcast. I asked them to change channels, because it is impossible, I have a lot of these discussions at work. And here again I see it. To which my mother said: “Well, what? leave it on. And from this began such timid attempts to test the ground, as far as it is possible to discuss anything, including our plans. There was no conversation. As soon as I tried to explain that this is actually a sovereign country, why are we there? What are we doing there? I remember, I didn’t even finish this phrase, there was already immediately [reaction]: “Oh, what is this? Do you want to run away? Are you some kind of foreign agent?” I don't remember exactly what she said. But she says, they say, "if you do something, I will not bear this shame, I will kill myself." I decided not to continue.
Did you have a conversation with your parents as a result?
No.
That is, they did not understand why they came to them with search warrants?
I'm sure they know that I'm in another country, that they were given a one-sided explanation on what happened.
But you didn’t discuss it with them?
I didn’t discuss it, I don’t even know if it will work out or not, but I haven’t discussed it yet .
Do you understand why the FSO reacted like this to your departure? Why don't they run after you with "Novichok" yet?
Of course, they haven’t come after me with Novichok yet, but they have already visited my relatives. I think they’re lazy about me due to the fact that they think: "I left, there are many of you, so one more, one less."
You say so - one more, one less, as if employees run away from the FSO every day, crossing the border.
No, they don’t. To be honest, I have never heard of such a thing even in neighboring services. Well, you know, these conversations are in the canteen. Somehow, even at the level of rumors, this hasn’t happened.
That is, after all, an emergency occurred in the FSO. Aren't you afraid that some Chepiga and Mishkin will really come after you?
Are these tourists? How can I say this. When on November 8 or 9 they came to our relatives, naturally, I was upset. Well, I'm worried, yes, but what's the use of being worried?
Do you have any plan? What will you do next?
Everything is in flux. My ultimate goal is to make sure the child does not know the horrors of war. So that the state, which in every possible way intrudes into the upbringing of children, does not touch her. So that my daughter could grow up in a calm environment, she can grow up as a person and realize herself. Everything I do is for her. For me, this is the main goal.
Vladimir Putin and FSO
How did you get into the FSO?
I studied at the A.F. Mozhaisky Military Space Academy in 2004-2009. In 2009 I graduated. And at that time, there were reforms by [Defence Minister Anatoly] Serdyukov. So to speak, optimization and layoffs. We are cadets. And so there are layoffs, and here we are fresh, where are we? Many cadets did not hold any position, received a cut salary, and in general the prospects were vague. And we tried to find an alternative. Somehow, through acquaintances, I had the opportunity [to go to the FSO].
I liked the option. First, it was not clear what would happen in the Ministry of Defense. And then the Federal Security Service! Office of Presidential Communications! It sounded goog so I agreed. And the opportunity (at least indirectly) to participate in this process, to be close to the president ... I don’t know if this can be called romance. I gladly agreed, yes, it was cool. Plus it's in Moscow. According to the plan, I would go somewhere, I don’t know, to Kamchatka. But I really liked this one.
How do you usually get to serve in the FSO?
There is the FSO Academy in Orel. Most of my colleagues are from the academy, but some - 20-30 percent - are from the Ministry of Defense. And there are still those who switched from civilian life.
How strict is the selection process?
They study your personal file, conduct an interview. Another aptitude test, all sorts of logical tasks. This is a long process.
What did you do in the FSO? What is your typical working day?
I am an engineer in the presidential communications department, we are engaged in providing encrypted communications for the first persons of the state - the president and the prime minister. I am in the unit called “visiting”, which provides communication between the president and the prime minister on their business trips in Russia and abroad. Astana for me is the 183rd or 184th business trip.
Many, perhaps, thought first of all that special communication is to come and put the phone on. Unfortunately, not everything is so simple: we have encryption equipment, we have channel-forming equipment. For the phone to work, a lot of additional equipment is required. The connection of a subscriber with another subscriber passes through the switchboard, on which the operator of the special switchboard sits. This is a huge number of both personnel and equipment.
In addition to special communications, what does the FSO consist of, what other divisions are there?
- A huge number of departments in any area. Absolutely all moments, all aspects of the president's work as a top official - all this falls on the shoulders of the FSO. Here and questions of protection, directly physical, and questions of the organization of all actions connected with participation of the first persons. I think everyone knows very well that there are people, chefs who cook for the president, the prime minister. All food is tested, for this there is a special service - the Center for Biological Safety.
Cars are in the GON, a special purpose garage. There are even firefighters: engineers and firefighters travel with us on business trips, who study all the relevant technical documentation and check all facilities for compliance with engineering, technical and fire safety standards. There are divisions that are responsible for the information and technical component - closed videoconferencing, access to the Internet, providing a workplace. The only thing with Putin there is a little different - he does not use the Internet. But there is such a division, because he uses videoconferencing. This became especially in demand in 2020, when the coronavirus began.
In the most general sense, the FSO is engaged in the protection of administrative facilities: the Kremlin, the State Duma, the Federation Council, the same CEC, for example, are also employees of the FSO. And a number of other service and administrative facilities.
So, is this a state within a state?
A very independent organization, yes.
Which unit in the structure of the FSO is considered the most prestigious?
In my understanding, communication is the basis of command and control. But in our country, the presidential security service (SBP FSO) is probably more important, because they are in direct contact with the president and the prime minister. Further, probably a little lower in the hierarchy, the management of the organization of security measures is the headquarters, all organizational issues go through them.
Vladimir Putin - have you seen him? How different is his television image from what he is in real life?
The first time I saw him was on a business trip, it was my first business trip - October 2009, Kazan. In principle, I didn’t have the opportunity to talk, and I don’t. That is, I observe everything that happens, but I don’t talk. Because the president’s work schedule is scheduled by the minute, there are always a lot of security personnel around him, a lot of people, no, it’s problematic just to come up to him and talk, or ask: “How are you?”
Everything that is shown on TV is the demeanor, everything is exactly the same. There are no super-distortions, everything is like on TV. But we still work directly at official events. Yes, there are private programs. But, unfortunately, I was not present in such situations. Any other communication that I witnessed - everything was within the bounds of decency, I would not say that there was some kind of super-aggression [on Putin's part].
Putin really works a lot, it can be seen from business trips. For example, I'm on duty and I see what time the call connects. On a business trip, he does not fall asleep until 2-3 am Moscow time. If this is some kind of business trip to another time zone, then he works mainly in Moscow time. And already there, on the spot - the administration, governors, those who are directly with him - adjust to his needs. When I was in Kamchatka, there was a meeting right at night, simply because in Moscow it was daytime and it was convenient for him.
In teams, they usually discuss their boss. Does this happen in FSO? Employees of the FSO are discussing the president?
They call him a chef, they idolize him in every possible way. They talk about him this way.
Where does Vladimir Putin get his information from? Is it in a vacuum? Does he use the internet?
He doesn't use a cell phone. In all my years of service, I have never seen him with a mobile. On business trips, if we fly with the Prime Minister, then another person who deals with Internet issues travels with us - an electronic office, a laptop, access to the net. With Putin, this employee is not needed. Why the Internet? Indeed, I will print the Internet for you. Joke. But he really does not use the Internet or the phone. All the information he receives is only from people who are directly close. He lives in a kind of information vacuum.
It is generally accepted that the president receives "daddies" - secret reports of the special services. Is this his source of information?
Yes that's right.
Does the President watch TV?
Russian television is a mandatory requirement when preparing the residence for the President's visit. The residence is an abstract concept, it can be a hotel room or some kind of guest complex. Russian channels are broadcast there, for example, Rossiya. Four TV channels, "Rossiya" is a must.
Is Putin really in isolation all the time?
Yes that's right. In January it will be three years since the coronavirus has been on our planet. And our president is still sitting [in self-isolation]. We are seriously quarantined for two weeks before any event, even if it lasts 15 or 20 minutes. A pool of employees is being created who have undergone sanitisation - they have undergone quarantine for two weeks. They are considered clean and can work directly in the same room as Putin.
Is there any understanding among the employees why the quarantine is still so strict?
Everyone is a little confused as to why this is still going on. Because at least everyone was forced to be vaccinated. Everyone undergoes medical examinations, monitors their health, and undergoes PCR testing. I know that all the president's adjuncts take PCR tests almost several times a day. Why torture people after almost three years with these incomprehensible quarantines? Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin has been ill, and that's it, no problem, right? I don't know, I'm just afraid, probably for his health.
Is there any opinion in the FSO, what is happening? Maybe Vladimir Putin is mortally ill, so he is afraid to pick up the coronavirus?
This was not discussed in our offices. If, perhaps, there are any health problems, they are simply due to age. Probably they are. But nothing too over the top.
This question now worries about half of the world's population. What about Vladimir Putin's health? Is he with us for how long?
I can say that we often go on business trips with him, and until 2020 he traveled very often. Then he sat down in a bunker and, perhaps, he will spend one or three business trips a year. And before the coronavirus year, there were a lot of business trips. In reality, we could not be in Moscow for 2–3 weeks or even a month. It was because he fell ill that I think one or two trips were cancelled.
This is one or two business trips for how long?
For all the time that I served.
Since 2009?
Yes, yes, that's right.
That is, in 13 years, one or two business trips were canceled due to Putin's illness?
Yes. In terms of health, he is probably better than many other people of his age. He has annual medical checks. Usually we know in advance that the Central Clinical Hospital needs to be connected. And then one time it was somehow unexpected and not at the usual time. Usually this medical examination is at the end of summer or at the beginning of autumn. This year it was in April.
It's just that I was in the net pool in 2022 on May 9th. I was supposed to go into quarantine conditionally the next day, and that day they told me: “You are not going anywhere.” And I wanted to finish up early, I wouldn’t be at home for two weeks, at least to stay with the child, to do housework so that it would be a little easier for my wife. And then they said to me: “No, you’re not going, you will go now to the Central Clinical Hospital.” Usually we know in advance that the next day we will need to go to install equipment. Another thing is that I am not ready to say whether he ended up going to the Central Clinical Hospital or not.
Are relatives of Vladimir Putin also in quarantine to see the president?
I can’t say for sure, I don’t know how they set it all up.
Do the FSO even know that Vladimir Putin has relatives? Have you seen anyone in person?
For many people, it is not a secret that he has children, whom for some reason he calls "these women" . But until I can confirm some information for myself, I am not ready to say that this is the case. But on a business trip, we were on duty, and the telephone operator said that Ekaterina was there and that she was resting in a residence in Sochi. Putin was there at the same time.
I'll go through the entire list of famous relatives of Vladimir Putin in a little more detail. That is, Katerina Tikhonova is guarded by an FSO officer?
Yes. And she was resting at the same time in the same residence as Putin.
There is also the second daughter of the president - Maria Vorontsova. Does she also have an officer assigned to her?
I’ll say for sure about Catherine, because I confirmed this for myself. But, probably, for Mary exactly the same scheme.
Vladimir Putin relatively recently had an official wife, Lyudmila Putina. Have you met her in your work?
No, I’ve never met her. There were business trips when she was supposed to be present as the first lady. But I did not come across her, and it was more than nine years ago.
Does the president have grandchildren?
Exactly the same - I don't know. This was not discussed in our room. We talked about Kabaeva. That they live together. But these are rumors, in a conversation with an employee of the SBP, I heard that they live together.
Did your colleagues say something about the joint children of Putin and Alina Kabaeva?
No, it was not discussed. Well, more precisely, it was discussed, but these are still rumors, this is not something that I can at least indirectly, but confidently confirm.
In connection with Vladimir Putin, they also call Svetlana Krivonogikh . Allegedly they have a daughter together.
Look, I never heard anything. But I see many moments from the same investigations of Alexei Navalny on business trips. I see what he says; it sounds truthful.
And what part of the investigation of Navalny's team could you personally confirm?
Of the most sensational - this is Putin's palace. Everyone there began a week later trying to excuse themselves that this is some kind of hotel. Naturally, I also wanted to understand. I talked with a colleague who travels a lot. He travels to Sochi and St. Petersburg on an ongoing basis. I mean, he spends a lot of time there. And he knows for sure. Moreover, he is responsible for radio communications and all the objects are needed, he goes around and checks them all. I ask him: is there a palace? He says: “Well, yes, there is, as it were. I often go there, I check the connection.
The team of Alexei Navalny also found one of the most expensive yachts in the world, the Scheherazade, from Vladimir Putin . Did you discuss this ship with your colleagues?
About the "Scheherazade", it was already around when the war began. Accordingly, you know, somehow I didn’t really want to communicate with someone when everyone around was savoring the bloodshed. Here I could not talk to anyone, but for myself I noted that they showed the lists of FSO employees. And some of the names seemed very familiar to me. The fact is that on business trips, I have lists of our employees. Not only ours in communications, but all the main lists. And these names are not Ivanov or Petrov, which would become familiar. Here, too, I have no doubts that this is really his yacht.
You say that you have established special communication on non-stationary objects. What are these objects?
Planes, helicopters, yachts - we call them "boats". Another special train from a recent one.
What is a special train?
This is a train under the president. He started to appear on our schedule somewhere, probably in 2014 or 2015. It looks like an ordinary train, exactly the same as all the other, gray with a red stripe, RZD trains.
Why does the president use it?
Because it's less noticeable. Because the planes are all displayed on the respective services. And the train - how many such gray trains? Moreover, they are not tracked anywhere on any information resource. It operates off the radar.
Does Putin often ride this train?
In 2014–2015, we just started working with it and equipping it. It began to be used often, probably somewhere in August - September 2021. It turns out that our employees were in quarantine specifically for the special train. From the beginning of the war, the guys said that for about 40 days or 45 days they simply left towards Valdai. Quarantines for the train crew are like shifts. Yes, maybe there will be no departure on this watch, but people are always ready.
The president also has an intercom booth that we carry on every business trips abroad. It is a place from which negotiations can be conducted with guaranteed secrecy. The cabin is, of course, bulky. This is such a cube about 2.5 m high. Inside, it has a workplace and a telephone through which you can speak without fear that foreign intelligence can hear or read the conversation.
And what are the boats on which you established special communications? How big are the ships?
These are not rowing boats, these are well-furnished two- or three-deck yachts. The furnishings are chic. But we must also take into account the fact that some of them are definitely on the balance sheet of the presidential administration. That's why not all of them are 100% private, but during my stay I saw a lot of them, especially at the St. Petersburg Economic Forum, there were about 20 of them.
It is believed that Vladimir Putin has "bunkers". So it is customary to call his residence. Have you been to a real bunker, that is, a bomb shelter? Have you set up a special connection there?
Before, we did not equip any bomb shelters. And if we were on the territory of the embassy in Kazakhstan, if we set up communication there earlier in the ambassador's office or in the meeting room, then in October we put another phone in the bomb shelter. Some kind of paranoia. You are in the territory of another state. This state, the organizer of the summit, provides all the security. The territory of the embassy itself is also guarded.
That is, Vladimir Putin is afraid that an attempt will be made on his life during a trip abroad, he will have to hide in a bomb shelter and from there he will contact someone?
Why else would you need a bomb shelter? I understand that yes, he’s afraid.
Vladimir Putin has quite a few official and unofficial residences. Can you guess where it happens most often?
I think that Valdai can be called the most frequently visited. There are two points of interest. He has offices in St. Petersburg, in Sochi, in Novo-Ogaryovo - they are the same, everything is absolutely identical there. It happened that I knew that he was in Sochi. The TV is on in the background, the news is on, they show that he held some kind of meeting in Novo-Ogaryovo. And I ask a colleague in Sochi: “Has he already left?” No, he says, he’s here.
The guys shared with a smile that when Putin is in Sochi, it gives the impression that he is flying. They bring the plane, and the officers. But in fact, he remains in Sochi. The kids are talking and laughing. I think that this is, firstly, an attempt to confuse foreign intelligence, and secondly, so that there are no assassination attempts.
Have you ever heard from your colleagues that someone tried to assassinate Vladimir Putin?
No, but that doesn't stop him from being afraid of it. Otherwise, why such a disguise?
You have been engaged in special communications for the president for 13 years. Is it possible, on the basis of this experience, to assume with whom the president most often calls up, who is his main adviser?
If there is some personal conversation... I think that Putin has the opportunity to do this not by phone, but all the connections that go through us, especially on business trips, they are all in an official format. These are, for example, consultations with the relevant minister.
War
Looking back now at the events of February, what do you think, when could one guess for the first time or say with some certainty that there would definitely be a war?
There was nothing at all in terms of actions, no prerequisites, specifically for Putin's personal actions. But by the actions that took place in the media space, I already clearly understood for myself that something would happen. But I did not think that there would be a full-scale war.
You have been observing Vladimir Putin for quite a long period of time. For you, the person you saw in 2009 and the person who announced the start of the war are the same person? Or has he changed in some way?
By his behavior, they are two different people. That is, we remember when the former director of the FSB became prime minister, then president, he was energetic and active. He, of course, was just as active until 2020, judging by the business trips, there really were a lot of them. Now he is very closed off. He protected himself from the whole world with all sorts of barriers, the same quarantine, the lack of information. His perception of reality was distorted. In my understanding, in the 21st century, a sane person who objectively looks at everything that happens in the world, and even more so is able to somehow to predict at least in the medium term, that he would not allow this war.
Your colleagues have enough jingoistic moods. They support the president and this war. Did they somehow explain to you in conversations why a war is needed?
Of course, but this is not my line, and, in principle, it sounds creepy. The ratio is about 50 to 50. Half of the FSO believes that it was necessary to bomb Maidan in Kyiv with rockets back in 2014. And others: “Why, but what else [could we do now with Ukraine]?” Honestly, I hoped that there would be people who, at least in private conversations, would at least somehow say: “Guys, well, actually, this is a war, in general, people are dying.” I hoped that such phrases would be said. Unfortunately, such phrases were not said, and almost 100% for Putin.
You served in the FSO from 2009 to 2022. Obviously, a significant period. Do you regret anything? Do you regret that you took this job?
Thanks to the service in the FSO, I saw a distortion of information. Even my wife tells me that if it weren’t for me… And I come to her and tell her what the hell, what nonsense, everything is not at all the same [as on television]. I don't want to think about it, but if I wasn't in the FSO, I'm horrified to think that I could be a Z-patriot or whatever they're called. Because I would watch TV. And since 2014, I saw everything, and it began to radically change my perception.
I flew to Crimea on the 20th of March 2014. I had the opportunity to talk, communicate with the people who live there. There has already been a referendum, and I had the opportunity to ask people if they really support joining. Was it really 97%? And there was not a single impulse to 100% "for". If you vote "for", especially with such a result - 97%, then you should not have any doubts, and there it was 50 to 50. Half - well, yes, it seems like it would be nice to join. And the other half is full-fledged doubts. That's when I got my first doubts. So I am grateful to the service - I opened my eyes.
And I regret that I was not interested in politics. Because many moments of our life are directly related to interaction with politics.
What other calls were there besides Crimea?
A lot of calls actually. On business trips, when you travel, you watch how everything is prepared. When you see that in order for one person to sit in one office, tons of money is spent, I also began to have questions. Previously, maybe I didn’t think about it, but after 2014, a lump began to grow. Is this really the only thing we can spend money on? That's a huge number of people. How much money do you need to spend on his transportation so that he can live there? Five-star hotels, a delegation of more than 200 people, that is, there is a huge amount of money there.
On business trips there is also a private program. An official arrives, spends a little time in one office for the sake of half an hour of a picture for the TV. Then it will be shown in a two-minute video, and maybe even shorter. And then he leaves somewhere in the mountains: in guest houses, on the river bank, that is, there is a private program. Came, marked, and then everything else.
Here's from the last one. Mikhail Mishustin was in Gorno-Altaisk . He spent about an hour and a half at the event. And I was in the mountains, setting up communications for the Prime Minister in the Altay Village guest house. That's in the season when the cheapest cottage for a day was about 120-130 thousand rubles. And the most expensive one is about 300 thousand per day. The delegation was large, all the cottages were bought there for seven days.
And here even more questions arise. Sorry, you probably couldn’t earn money for this vacation yourself. If you spent from the budget, then the question is: isn't it too much to spend on one person? And if it is not from the budget, then it is generally full-fledged corruption. And these occasions grew. Since 2014, I began to notice a little more clearly, but still continued to put up with it. Excuse me, since February 24 I couldn’t put up with it anymore.
How do you explain why these calls to the FSO rang only for you?
Look, there are certain advantages in the service in the FSO. God knows it wasn’t a big salary but it was stable. For example, I receive about 80 thousand rubles and certain bonuses. I ended up with somewhere between 100-110 thousand. I think this, of course, is not enough for Moscow, but on the whole it is normal. Can this compensate for the constant absence for your child? This is a different question. But you can go on a business trip anywhere in the world where you could never go on your 80-100 thousand. And even more so if your salary is less.
But your colleagues see how their salary is spent on some kind of entertainment not even in an hour, but in a minute, if not in a second. Doesn't this cause them any dissonance?
I don’t know why they’re not bothered by it. Probably just because they somehow participate in it. Imagine, a Kempinski hotel or some other cool one, in which you definitely will not live in ordinary life. There, three meals a day will be organized at the appropriate level. There is something, perhaps, alluring in the fact that you can go where you would never go. I also had to make a deal with my conscience, close my eyes. It doesn't seem to concern me, and then it's okay, God bless him, I'll live these two years until retirement. Colleagues also have some limiting factors - pensions, the child must be dressed and fed.
But this is precisely in terms of why they serve. Why support? I clearly see support. The war directly affected the FSO. The security forces are involved in the fighting. On a business trip in Veliky Novgorod, I stood and talked with the guys from the local center for special communications and information. And I hear a story about how mobile communication centers are sent to the territory of Ukraine from the centers of special communication and information, which are located in the central region. And the photographs show that there are complexes that are completely destroyed. Five complexes, each complex has three cars. Crew - I can only assume that there are 5-6 people. But according to the photographs that were shown, it turns out that no one survived at all.
That is, they kill your colleagues. And they still support?
I met the news about the mobilization on September 21 in Veliky Novgorod, and this conversation was a couple of days before. And [I remember] the bewildered eyes of the man who told me all this [about FSO officers killed in the war]. And then, after a couple of hours, everyone’s mood is already “now we’ll show everyone there”.
Is it the same person?
No, it's not the same, but the mood is still like this inside.
Is there anything you would like to say to your FSO colleagues?
Yes, I would like to address Russian officers, including FSO officers.
You have information that is not broadcast on TV. And I saw only a little part. Come on, give more information. You will help the citizens to know the truth. I am sure that the actions of the supreme commander have raised questions in you before, but the oath forced you not to ask and clearly follow orders. But what is happening now goes beyond all limits - conceivable and unthinkable. You must not carry out criminal orders and serve this war criminal - Vladimir Putin. I consider him to be a war criminal.
An attack on the territory of a sovereign state is simply beyond our heads. There is a use of multiple launch rocket systems, the destruction of residential buildings and critical infrastructure. How many nameless victims of this war and among them children? How many more of these victims must there be for you to stop putting up with it? What is happening now in Ukraine, all this destruction, aggressive war, terrorism and genocide of the Ukrainian people (there is no other way to call it) - all this is a criminal offense, and our president has become a war criminal.
You must stop following these criminal orders. Employees of the FSO are constantly around the president. You can just walk in and make it clear that this is a crime. And in your hands is the ability to stop this madness very quickly. I would really like you to do this, because you will save so many lives.
I will probably be accused of not being a patriot. Patriotism is when you love your homeland. And in this case, our homeland needs to be saved. There is a crazy and terrible war. And this war must end as soon as possible.
I would also like to address the citizens of Russia. I hope that what I just said only confirmed that there is a distortion of information in our country. We are all kept in the dark, they tell us only convenient information, convenient for one person. For years, we were simply inspired by non-selectivity in the choice of sources of information and conformism. And all this was one of the reasons for the outbreak of war.
The President and Prime Minister are ordinary civil servants. These are our hired workers, we pay them salaries from our taxes. The task of their ministry is to improve our lives. And now answer the question for yourself: have you begun to live better over the past 10 years? Have you gotten better in the last 8-9 months? I don't think so. And it means that something is going wrong. And this means that the country's leadership is not coping with its duties.
Like playgrounds, roads to be repaired, everything drags on for years. And to adopt some repressive laws in three readings in the State Duma - this is all done in one day, the state keeps you in fear, so that you are afraid to ask any questions, afraid to speak out. The deputies who adopt these laws are representatives of your interests, did you definitely choose them?
Our president is cut off from the world. He has been living in an information cocoon for the past couple of years, spending most of his time in his residences, which the media very eloquently refer to as bunkers. He is pathologically afraid for his life. He surrounded himself with an impenetrable barrier of quarantines and lack of information. His values are his life and the life of his family and friends. The life of your relatives and friends is of no interest to him. Tearing men out of their families and sending them to be slaughtered on the territory of sovereign Ukraine, he absolutely does not think about what is happening in our country and Ukraine, that he brings misfortune, destruction, death to us and the fraternal people of Ukraine.
It's also killing our economy. This means that not his children, but our children will have to live poorer. Not all children will be brought up in families with a father, but this does not bother him at all. They bring him information in folders, everything is beautifully drawn there, what a beautiful and wonderful future we have. Well, I'm sure it will. Without Putin, when the war is over, it will certainly be so.
And I can't believe our citizens are supporting this war. I'm sure it isn't. If not, then why are you silent? State it, declare it as loud as you can. Personally to the Kremlin, personally to Putin. The Constitution guarantees you the right to a peaceful assembly without weapons, rallies and marches. Even if Putin is in his next bunker, he will definitely be conveyed this information that the people are against the war.
This criminal war should not have been started and must be ended as soon as possible. Life is the highest value. This has been forgotten in our country. People are considered cannon fodder. This will happen only as long as we are silent. It's time to end this war and it's time to stop being silent.